Sunday, November 20, 2005
the prayer of suffering
Last weekend, I attended a conference on human sexuality, sponsored by the Archdiocese of Los Angeles.
Nothing prepared me for the opening prayer / icebreakers, which literally transported me in time to my worst experiences of seminary. I am a big fan of John Paul II's Theology of the Body, and of the integration of body and spirit, but this experience was so painful that I had to become a Manichean dualist for about five minutes to cope with the situation: my body was doing one thing, but my spirit was definitely elsewhere in an effort to manage the pain.
Fr. Chris Ponnet led us in an opening prayer, fashioned on a Liturgy of the Hours service designed especially for World AIDS Day. Why we didn't have Mass is still a mystery to me... but given this priest's sense of the ars celebrandi, it was probably best to leave the sacred mysteries for another occasion.
Immediately before the prayer, we were asked to turn to the person sitting next to us, take both their hands in ours, look into their eyes and share one thing we hoped for from the day, and one thing we feared. I shared that I hoped to learn what the Archdiocese was teaching about human sexuality, and that my fear was the same thing. Curiously, my "intimacy partner" shared the same hope and fear. We bonded.
But then it was time for prayer. The makeshift holy table at the front of the room featured the obligatory swath of purple fabric with a lectionary atop the mound. Adjacent was a large rainbow colored candle with three wicks in it, burning bright. In front of each of our place settings was a tea candle, which we were asked to bring to the front, light in the large candle, and place in a tray to symbolize our togetherness. Then we processed back to our seats.
Everything else was pretty conventional until we finished the last strophe of the Song of the Body of Christ by David Haas. When it concluded, the music and atmosphere suddenly transported us to the Heavenly Romper Room. Fr. Chris donned a sorcerer's hat with Mickey Mouse ears (complete with flashing lights) and proceeded to ask us to stand and participate in some Christian aerobics. So here I am, touching my toes, reaching to the God above, spinning in circles with thirty other catechists / teachers / religious sisters. Not kidding. Here's what his hat looked like, and here is the soundtrack from this painful moment in my day.
I should have been prepared for this sort of Mickey Mouse. After all, Fr. Chris Ponnet had mentioned at the very beginning that he was particularly good at making people uncomfortable, and in retrospect, I have to say he demonstrated these skills with verve and abandon. I just wish he had given some more thought to the matter. I mean, sometimes we make people uncomfortable because of a prophetic witness, other times we make people uncomfortable for... other reasons.
I was pleased to find that his presentation mellowed out significantly after this, and that he actually had some good things to say. I just wish he hadn't put such a large stumbling block in the way of his credibilty by the way he chose to launch the day.
Back to Main PageNothing prepared me for the opening prayer / icebreakers, which literally transported me in time to my worst experiences of seminary. I am a big fan of John Paul II's Theology of the Body, and of the integration of body and spirit, but this experience was so painful that I had to become a Manichean dualist for about five minutes to cope with the situation: my body was doing one thing, but my spirit was definitely elsewhere in an effort to manage the pain.
Fr. Chris Ponnet led us in an opening prayer, fashioned on a Liturgy of the Hours service designed especially for World AIDS Day. Why we didn't have Mass is still a mystery to me... but given this priest's sense of the ars celebrandi, it was probably best to leave the sacred mysteries for another occasion.
Immediately before the prayer, we were asked to turn to the person sitting next to us, take both their hands in ours, look into their eyes and share one thing we hoped for from the day, and one thing we feared. I shared that I hoped to learn what the Archdiocese was teaching about human sexuality, and that my fear was the same thing. Curiously, my "intimacy partner" shared the same hope and fear. We bonded.
But then it was time for prayer. The makeshift holy table at the front of the room featured the obligatory swath of purple fabric with a lectionary atop the mound. Adjacent was a large rainbow colored candle with three wicks in it, burning bright. In front of each of our place settings was a tea candle, which we were asked to bring to the front, light in the large candle, and place in a tray to symbolize our togetherness. Then we processed back to our seats.
Everything else was pretty conventional until we finished the last strophe of the Song of the Body of Christ by David Haas. When it concluded, the music and atmosphere suddenly transported us to the Heavenly Romper Room. Fr. Chris donned a sorcerer's hat with Mickey Mouse ears (complete with flashing lights) and proceeded to ask us to stand and participate in some Christian aerobics. So here I am, touching my toes, reaching to the God above, spinning in circles with thirty other catechists / teachers / religious sisters. Not kidding. Here's what his hat looked like, and here is the soundtrack from this painful moment in my day.
I should have been prepared for this sort of Mickey Mouse. After all, Fr. Chris Ponnet had mentioned at the very beginning that he was particularly good at making people uncomfortable, and in retrospect, I have to say he demonstrated these skills with verve and abandon. I just wish he had given some more thought to the matter. I mean, sometimes we make people uncomfortable because of a prophetic witness, other times we make people uncomfortable for... other reasons.
I was pleased to find that his presentation mellowed out significantly after this, and that he actually had some good things to say. I just wish he hadn't put such a large stumbling block in the way of his credibilty by the way he chose to launch the day.
Comments:
There must be something in the drinking water down there at the chancery.
I attended a vocations seminar last May, and we all had to do the "sharing" thing. I felt like I was back in third grade.
The day was very disappointing, to say the least. One of the two seminarians who came to tell us about his call to the priesthood wore a Mickey Mouse T-shirt. To me, that spoke volumes.
The people running the show down there are weirdly stuck in a 1970's psychobabble time warp, and seem obsessed about sex. They kept assuring us that we could be "sexual and celibate" and how "wonderful" our sexuality is.
Mercifully, we didn't have to "share" any intimate personal stories.
Of course we had the Mass right there in the seminar room, gathered around the priest with a card table used for an altar, even though a chapel was available nearby. The usual "music", etc.
I am re-examining my vocation to the archdiocese in light of the problems with this current regime.
A resignation by the cardinal and a general housecleaning could not come soon enough, in my opinion.
I attended a vocations seminar last May, and we all had to do the "sharing" thing. I felt like I was back in third grade.
The day was very disappointing, to say the least. One of the two seminarians who came to tell us about his call to the priesthood wore a Mickey Mouse T-shirt. To me, that spoke volumes.
The people running the show down there are weirdly stuck in a 1970's psychobabble time warp, and seem obsessed about sex. They kept assuring us that we could be "sexual and celibate" and how "wonderful" our sexuality is.
Mercifully, we didn't have to "share" any intimate personal stories.
Of course we had the Mass right there in the seminar room, gathered around the priest with a card table used for an altar, even though a chapel was available nearby. The usual "music", etc.
I am re-examining my vocation to the archdiocese in light of the problems with this current regime.
A resignation by the cardinal and a general housecleaning could not come soon enough, in my opinion.
# posted by 
: 11/20/2005 9:56 AM
: 11/20/2005 9:56 AM
I'm wondering, why in the world Mickey Mouse?!
Stories like this bring be back to my "experiences" when I went to college in the Richmond Diocese in VA. Ugh. Thank goodness there is some cleaning up there going on with their new Bishop!!! :-)
Stories like this bring be back to my "experiences" when I went to college in the Richmond Diocese in VA. Ugh. Thank goodness there is some cleaning up there going on with their new Bishop!!! :-)
# posted by : 11/20/2005 11:06 AM
: 11/20/2005 11:06 AM
I admire your intestinal fortitude Clayton... all in the name of research.
It reminds me of a diocesan pastoral council meeting I attended here in Australia several years ago (not in my current diocese).
In the opening "liturgy" we had to "turn and face the North, from where the wind blows cold". Yeah, right. Here in Melbourne in the middle of summer, when the wind blows from the north it's 110 degrees!
(Naturally, I wanted to turn and face the door, and then walk to it, open it, and run! I had to persevere unfortunately.)
I expect we'll be seeing imported Mickey Mouse liturgical acts sometime soon.
It reminds me of a diocesan pastoral council meeting I attended here in Australia several years ago (not in my current diocese).
In the opening "liturgy" we had to "turn and face the North, from where the wind blows cold". Yeah, right. Here in Melbourne in the middle of summer, when the wind blows from the north it's 110 degrees!
(Naturally, I wanted to turn and face the door, and then walk to it, open it, and run! I had to persevere unfortunately.)
I expect we'll be seeing imported Mickey Mouse liturgical acts sometime soon.
What I really want to know is whether he will be performing a clown and mime mass, complete with kazoos.
Over 20 years ago, my Dad told me that I would be told that black is white and white is black. The degree of nonsense contained in these reversals didn't make sense to me at the time. For the past 10 years, they have been making a great deal of sense. Many people out there are lost and confused. Lord, help us to suffer well, and/or do whatever You ask of us so that through Your o/w 'unprofitable servants,' You may be seen and loved.
# posted by : 11/21/2005 8:00 AM
: 11/21/2005 8:00 AM
I e-mailed Fr. Ponnet, since I figured if I am going to provide my feedback, I ought to be willing to present it directly to him.
I told him of my interest in Theology of the Body, and wondered if the teaching had reached the diocesan level yet. Here is his e-mail reply:
His [John Paul II's] theology is part of many teachers in the Archdiocese. One needs to look at all of that body of work in the context of other theologians and teachers in the church along with official documents as I mentioned. I am sorry you did not stay for the whole day...it was planned as a team to build on the various stages.
I am sorry that you could not respond directly to me or the team about the day without putting things into a internet format that takes things out of context.
Jesus is my teacher. Prayer for Jesus was in various formats and styles...from his tears fro Jerusalem to his cry out from the cross. So I am sorry that you
could not experience prayer from various styles. I am sorry that sharing seems to be a problem for you and other responders to your internet site. Jesus as teacher engaged people with questions and challenges.
Teaching techniques also tell us that interaction among participants increases memory.
I will remain a priest and teacher of this church with music, prayer, interaction, biblical and church teaching as the tools I must include. The procession of the candles come from our Liturgy of Easter Vigil and the sharing of the stories come from the Initiation rituals of our official church.
I am saddened by the process of communication. I remain open to direct communication from you or other attendees. I would note the many other calls and emails seem to indicate the opening prayer spoke to many hearts and the entire day gave them reflection for life and tools for teaching.
Fr. Chris Ponnet, Director Catholic HIV/AIDS Ministry, Los Angeles Archdiocese, Member Archdiocesean Human Sexuality task force, Pastor, St. Camillus Catholic Center for Pastoral Care
I told him of my interest in Theology of the Body, and wondered if the teaching had reached the diocesan level yet. Here is his e-mail reply:
His [John Paul II's] theology is part of many teachers in the Archdiocese. One needs to look at all of that body of work in the context of other theologians and teachers in the church along with official documents as I mentioned. I am sorry you did not stay for the whole day...it was planned as a team to build on the various stages.
I am sorry that you could not respond directly to me or the team about the day without putting things into a internet format that takes things out of context.
Jesus is my teacher. Prayer for Jesus was in various formats and styles...from his tears fro Jerusalem to his cry out from the cross. So I am sorry that you
could not experience prayer from various styles. I am sorry that sharing seems to be a problem for you and other responders to your internet site. Jesus as teacher engaged people with questions and challenges.
Teaching techniques also tell us that interaction among participants increases memory.
I will remain a priest and teacher of this church with music, prayer, interaction, biblical and church teaching as the tools I must include. The procession of the candles come from our Liturgy of Easter Vigil and the sharing of the stories come from the Initiation rituals of our official church.
I am saddened by the process of communication. I remain open to direct communication from you or other attendees. I would note the many other calls and emails seem to indicate the opening prayer spoke to many hearts and the entire day gave them reflection for life and tools for teaching.
Fr. Chris Ponnet, Director Catholic HIV/AIDS Ministry, Los Angeles Archdiocese, Member Archdiocesean Human Sexuality task force, Pastor, St. Camillus Catholic Center for Pastoral Care
How would I describe Father Ponnet's response to Clayton?
Gobbledygook from a kook.
Just reading a few lines from Father Ponnett gives me a headache. I can't imagine sitting through an entire conference with him.
Gobbledygook from a kook.
Just reading a few lines from Father Ponnett gives me a headache. I can't imagine sitting through an entire conference with him.
Fr. Ponnet,
Thanks for your response.
I am glad to hear that the Theology of the Body is a part of the catechesis being offered in the Archdiocese. I certainly found many concepts in your presentation that demonstrated an affinity / understanding for John Paul II's thought and I appreciated that. As I mentioned in the post, I thought you offered a number of valuable insights during your presentation.
I would have contacted you directly earlier, but I didn't locate your e-mail address in the materials given to us during the conference. As soon as I found this information via Google, I sent you an e-mail. I thought I was fairly careful about providing a context for what took place. You mentioned that you felt that my observations were not placed in context. I would be interested to hear what context you thought was missing.
I have no problem with various formats and styles of prayer. My main question had to do with why the prayer chosen was an innovative, quasi-liturgical experience rather than a celebration of the Eucharist, which I believe to be the source and summit of the Christian life, and which is also something celebrated by the Church around the world.
I have no problem with sharing and challenges, only with an exercise which mandated sharing between strangers. Intimacy can't be mandated and should proceed from the free decision of both parties. To set up an exercise which required strangers to share hopes and fears seemed quite artificial. Of course, the participants were free to abstain from the exercise you proposed, but I had the sense that any such decision would have been interpreted in a negative light.
I am all for interactivity in presentations and was not objecting to that in the least. The aerobics, however, did not really provide much interactivity. I am aware that it was probably offered in a spirit of fun, to try to put people at ease, but my observation is that it did not have this effect on everyone. People define fun in a variety of ways. And then there is the question of whether people came to the conference to have fun, or rather, to be educated and formed.
I studied the rites of initation in my MDiv program, and don't recall any of the ancient rites involving a sharing of hopes and fears as part of the scrutinies or other parts of the initation process. That sort of thing happened between catechumen and sponsor, I imagine, on a volitional basis and at an appropriate time.
I was interested to hear about the otherwise positive feedback you received about the opening prayer. Such different responses to the same experience might point to the growing cultural and generational gap between older Catholics and those under the age of forty. You might want to consider prayer forms that have more universal appeal when you have such a diverse range of ages and experiences present. Or maybe at such events, the population is generally homogenous. And of course there is the possibility that others felt as I did but decided not to share their criticisms. It is more comfortable for most people to provide praise than to offer criticism, even constructive criticism.
Thanks for your response.
I am glad to hear that the Theology of the Body is a part of the catechesis being offered in the Archdiocese. I certainly found many concepts in your presentation that demonstrated an affinity / understanding for John Paul II's thought and I appreciated that. As I mentioned in the post, I thought you offered a number of valuable insights during your presentation.
I would have contacted you directly earlier, but I didn't locate your e-mail address in the materials given to us during the conference. As soon as I found this information via Google, I sent you an e-mail. I thought I was fairly careful about providing a context for what took place. You mentioned that you felt that my observations were not placed in context. I would be interested to hear what context you thought was missing.
I have no problem with various formats and styles of prayer. My main question had to do with why the prayer chosen was an innovative, quasi-liturgical experience rather than a celebration of the Eucharist, which I believe to be the source and summit of the Christian life, and which is also something celebrated by the Church around the world.
I have no problem with sharing and challenges, only with an exercise which mandated sharing between strangers. Intimacy can't be mandated and should proceed from the free decision of both parties. To set up an exercise which required strangers to share hopes and fears seemed quite artificial. Of course, the participants were free to abstain from the exercise you proposed, but I had the sense that any such decision would have been interpreted in a negative light.
I am all for interactivity in presentations and was not objecting to that in the least. The aerobics, however, did not really provide much interactivity. I am aware that it was probably offered in a spirit of fun, to try to put people at ease, but my observation is that it did not have this effect on everyone. People define fun in a variety of ways. And then there is the question of whether people came to the conference to have fun, or rather, to be educated and formed.
I studied the rites of initation in my MDiv program, and don't recall any of the ancient rites involving a sharing of hopes and fears as part of the scrutinies or other parts of the initation process. That sort of thing happened between catechumen and sponsor, I imagine, on a volitional basis and at an appropriate time.
I was interested to hear about the otherwise positive feedback you received about the opening prayer. Such different responses to the same experience might point to the growing cultural and generational gap between older Catholics and those under the age of forty. You might want to consider prayer forms that have more universal appeal when you have such a diverse range of ages and experiences present. Or maybe at such events, the population is generally homogenous. And of course there is the possibility that others felt as I did but decided not to share their criticisms. It is more comfortable for most people to provide praise than to offer criticism, even constructive criticism.
Fr. Ponnet,
I could be wrong - and I hope I am - but there seems to be very much a "me" centeredness to your response. The hurt tones, the false sorrow, the repeated use of the first person.
Might I suggest, as your brother in Christ, that you conduct a self examination and determine that part of your exercise which you're doing for your own exaltation and that which exalts the Lord. Test everything. Hold on to the good. (1 Thess 5:21)
Pax Christi vobiscum!
I could be wrong - and I hope I am - but there seems to be very much a "me" centeredness to your response. The hurt tones, the false sorrow, the repeated use of the first person.
Might I suggest, as your brother in Christ, that you conduct a self examination and determine that part of your exercise which you're doing for your own exaltation and that which exalts the Lord. Test everything. Hold on to the good. (1 Thess 5:21)
Pax Christi vobiscum!
# posted by : 11/22/2005 5:28 PM
: 11/22/2005 5:28 PM
I am sorry you did not stay for the whole day...it was planned as a team to build on the various stages.
When something goes that wrong, you just know that a committee is involved.
When something goes that wrong, you just know that a committee is involved.
When my husband and I were living in Southern California, attending Our Lady of the Assumption parish in Claremont, Fr. Chris was the associate pastor. He was one guy who gave us great impetus to jump ship and join the nearest Protestant church. We stuck it out in the end thanks to the timely homily of a different priest in that parish, and eventually Fr. Chris was sent off to minister to AIDS patients as a hospital chaplain. I see that he hasn't changed much in all these years.
The first time I had my parents visit us in So-Cal, Fr. Chris celebrated Easter Mass and decided that instead of saying the responses, the priest and people would "clap" the responses. As in: One clap = The Lord be With You. Two claps = And also with you. It was the most unbearably corny, embarrassing, idiotic thing I've ever been forced to endure in a Mass - and I've seen plenty of foolish stuff in years of living all over the USA. On another occasion, Fr. Chris was giving a homily about the Jews grumbling in the desert. He kept shrieking the word "grumbling!" - when suddenly, he took off down the main aisle of the church, ran up the stairs into the choir loft and finished his shrieking homily standing at the railing above everyone. He then bolted back downstairs to the sanctuary and asked, "Did I make you uncomfortable just now?" I remember a lady next to me nudging me with her elbow, rolling her eyes and muttering, "Theatrics." Fr. Chris might argue that I still remember his homily to this day...but the fact is that I have no memory of what he was "preaching." I only remember the lunacy of him running all over the church and shrieking "grumbling!"
My husband and I grew so weary, also, that in every homily Fr. Chris always had to mention sexual orientation - and how God did not withhold his grace based upon one's sexual preference. We were amazed, as a young couple beginning to raise a family, that we always heard about the needs of those with SSA - but never a word about living family life as a man and woman raising children in today's world.
The first time I had my parents visit us in So-Cal, Fr. Chris celebrated Easter Mass and decided that instead of saying the responses, the priest and people would "clap" the responses. As in: One clap = The Lord be With You. Two claps = And also with you. It was the most unbearably corny, embarrassing, idiotic thing I've ever been forced to endure in a Mass - and I've seen plenty of foolish stuff in years of living all over the USA. On another occasion, Fr. Chris was giving a homily about the Jews grumbling in the desert. He kept shrieking the word "grumbling!" - when suddenly, he took off down the main aisle of the church, ran up the stairs into the choir loft and finished his shrieking homily standing at the railing above everyone. He then bolted back downstairs to the sanctuary and asked, "Did I make you uncomfortable just now?" I remember a lady next to me nudging me with her elbow, rolling her eyes and muttering, "Theatrics." Fr. Chris might argue that I still remember his homily to this day...but the fact is that I have no memory of what he was "preaching." I only remember the lunacy of him running all over the church and shrieking "grumbling!"
My husband and I grew so weary, also, that in every homily Fr. Chris always had to mention sexual orientation - and how God did not withhold his grace based upon one's sexual preference. We were amazed, as a young couple beginning to raise a family, that we always heard about the needs of those with SSA - but never a word about living family life as a man and woman raising children in today's world.
# posted by : 11/23/2005 9:16 AM
: 11/23/2005 9:16 AM
My thoughts are here:
http://www.joe-perez.com/2005/11/one-catholics-prayer-of-suffering.html
- Joe
http://www.joe-perez.com/2005/11/one-catholics-prayer-of-suffering.html
- Joe
# posted by : 11/27/2005 6:42 PM
: 11/27/2005 6:42 PM
I've known Fr. Chris for 12 years and happened upon this "review" of,
among other things, his ministry style. Certainly humor and enthusiasm are among his most memorable qualities. He needs them (as do we all); for nearly 11 years now he has headed the chaplaincy team at one of the largest public hospitals in the country, serving the poor and indigent. Daily he journeys personally with people young and old, all of them in crisis, many of them experiencing enormous suffering and tragedy, in an effort to offer them hope and a sense of the presence of God. The Saturday that he spoke at the conference mentioned would otherwise have been his "day off" from his hospital duties. But he is well-known for filling any such
otherwise "spare moments" with a variety of activities focused on
those who are "the least" among us, including people with HIV/AIDS, people facing capital punishment, and those who feel marginalized because of their sexual orientation, for starters. Certainly people may disagree with what he says and how he says it. Only give him the respect due to a priest who is genuinely trying to live his vocation as he understands it.
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among other things, his ministry style. Certainly humor and enthusiasm are among his most memorable qualities. He needs them (as do we all); for nearly 11 years now he has headed the chaplaincy team at one of the largest public hospitals in the country, serving the poor and indigent. Daily he journeys personally with people young and old, all of them in crisis, many of them experiencing enormous suffering and tragedy, in an effort to offer them hope and a sense of the presence of God. The Saturday that he spoke at the conference mentioned would otherwise have been his "day off" from his hospital duties. But he is well-known for filling any such
otherwise "spare moments" with a variety of activities focused on
those who are "the least" among us, including people with HIV/AIDS, people facing capital punishment, and those who feel marginalized because of their sexual orientation, for starters. Certainly people may disagree with what he says and how he says it. Only give him the respect due to a priest who is genuinely trying to live his vocation as he understands it.
