A couple of years ago, a certain Michael Bayly printed an editorial in the St. Paul Pioneer Press entitled, Catholic Church: It's time to re-evaluate our views on human sexuality. In the article, he set up two straw men - Catholic Parents Online and the Suspend Abortion Compact - and I didn't feel he should get away with this, so I wrote him, hoping to start a dialogue. Dissenters are always speaking about dialogue, I thought to myself. Let's see just how interested Mr. Bayly is in dialogue.

So here is the correspondence that transpired between myself and Mr. Bayly:


Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 11:51:53 +0000
Subject: Opinion Page article: August 12 Pioneer Press

Dear Mr. Bayly:

I read your recent column in the Pioneer Press with great interest.

The title of the column was "It's time to re-evaluate our views on human sexuality." I definitely agree. Some of what you said within the article seemed quite penetrating and insightful; there were other assertions made, however, which I would be interested in discussing with you via some kind of dialogue (e-mail would be my preference).

So I have two questions for you:
1) Would you be open to having me ask a few questions of you?
2) If so, I would want to see the July 19 letter by Phyllis Plum that you reference in your column. I have been looking all over the Web for it without success. If you have a copy, could you forward it to me?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards, Clayton Emmer



From: "Michael Bayly"
Date: Mon Aug 18, 2003 3:37:46 PM US/Central
Subject: Re: Opinion Page article: August 12 Pioneer Press

Dear Clayton,

I'd be happy to correspond with you via e-mail re. my August 12 commentary.  Below are several other relevant pieces including both Ms. Plum's letter and Suspend Abortion Compact's open letter to Archbishop Flynn.

Peace, Michael
_______________________________________________

1) "Gay Debate Goes On" by Phyllis Plum (St. Paul Pioneer Press, July 19, 2003)
2) "The Voice of a Good Heart: An Interview with Kathy Itzin" by Michael Bayly (Rainbow Spiritóthe newsletter of the Catholic Pastoral Committee on Sexual Minorities [CPCSM])
3) An Open Letter to Archbishop Harry Flynn from the Suspend Abortion Compact (July 7, 2003)
4) "It is Time to Re-evaluate Our Views on Human Sexuality" by Michael Bayly (St. Paul Pioneer Press, August 12, 2003)
5) "CPO Does Not Speak for All Catholic Parents" by Michael Bayly and Mary Beckfeld (Minneapolis Star Tribune, July 5, 2003)
6) "Concerned Catholics to Stage Alternative Forum on Homosexuality" (Press Release from the Dignity Coalition, July 2003)



Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:27:23 +0000
Subject: Beginning a dialogue

Dear Michael,

I'm grateful that you are willing to engage in a dialogue with me. Thanks for sending along, in addition to Phyllis Plum letter, the additional five related articles; that was very generous of you.

I will need a day or so to read these carefully and then I will e-mail you again.

In the meantime, I thought I would introduce myself and let you know what I would hope for from a dialogue with you.

A brief overview of my background: I am 33 years old, an English Literature major, and a former serminarian for the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis. I studied for two-and-a-half years in the MDiv program at Saint Paul Seminary as part of my priestly formation. I currently work as a website manager and IT support person for a professional school in Saint Paul. Next month, I will be moving to Los Angeles to pursue a career in screenwriting and to serve as a missionary in the spiritual slums of Hollywood.

Ever since college, I have taken a strong interest in theology and pastoral practice. Thus, in recent years, I have been watching with great interest the debates and exchange that have been taking place in this Archdiocese over issues such as sexual orientation, the ordination of women, etc. So when I saw your article, I immediately wanted to enter the discussion.

For me, the way a discussion takes place is just as important as what is said. The principles of dialogue and respect are very important to me, and I hope they will govern the conversation that will take place between you and me. Charity must be at the center of the discussion - or else, all that is left is the clashing of cymbals (cf. 1 Cor 13).

So in preparation for our dialogue, I want to ask if you would please read the attached article by C.S. Lewis entitled "The Weight of Glory." Especially the last portion of the essay is significant, I think, for the process of dialogue:

"It may be possible for each to think too much of his own potential glory hereafter; it is hardly possible for him to think too often or too deeply about that of his neighbour. The load, or weight, or burden of my neighbour's glory should be laid daily on my back, a load so heavy that only humility can carry it, and the backs of the proud will be broken. It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest and most uninteresting person you talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship, or else a horror and a corruption such as you now meet, if at all, only in a nightmare. All day long we are, in some degree, helping each other to one or other of these destinations. It is in the light of these overwhelming possibilities, it is with the awe and the circumspection proper to them, that we should conduct all our dealings with one another, all friendships, all loves, all play, all politics. There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal. Nations, cultures, arts, civilization - these are mortal, and their life is to ours as the life of a gnat. But it is immortals whom we joke with, work with, marry, snub, and exploit - immortal horrors or everlasting splendours. This does not mean that we are to be perpetually solemn. We must play. But our merriment must be of that kind (and it is, in fact, the merriest kind) which exists between people who have, from the outset, taken each other seriously - no flippancy, no superiority, no presumption. And our charity must be a real and costly love, with deep feeling for the sins in spite of which we love the sinner - no mere tolerance or indulgence which parodies love as flippancy parodies merriment. Next to the Blessed Sacrament itself, your neighbour is the holiest object presented to your senses. If he is your Christian neighbour he is holy in almost the same way, for in him also Christ vere latitat - the glorifier and the glorified, Glory Himself, is truly hidden." (CS Lewis, from The Weight of Glory)

Again, I look forward to our conversation. Thank you for your willingness to engage in a dialogue with me.

Let's pray for one another.

In Christ Jesus, our hope,
Clayton



Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:41:50 +0000
Subject: Re: Opinion Page article: August 12 Pioneer Press

Michael,
I haven't forgotten you, nor my promise to respond to the articles you sent me. Life has simply been so busy as I prepare to leave my current job that I haven't had time to respond. But the coming week should offer me a chance to write to you.

Having visited the CPCSM website this week, I'm aware of the friendship between CPCSM and Fr. Greg Tolaas. I imagine this week is a difficult one for you. While I didn't know Fr. Greg personally, everyone who speaks about him remembers his remarkable compassion.

I hope to be at the funeral this morning, and perhaps I can meet you in person at that time. If not, expect to hear from me next week.

In Christ, Clayton



Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:48:12 -0500
Subject: FW: Opinion Page article: August 12 Pioneer Press

Dear Michael,

I hope this e-mail finds you well.

I have finally settled in my new home in Los Angeles, and am ready to begin a dialogue with you regarding your August 12 Pioneer Press editorial, "It's time to re-evaluate our views on human sexuality."

As I said before, I subscribe wholeheartedly to the sentiment expressed in the title to your editorial. And Pope John Paul II subscribes to the sentiment as well.

I know of no twentieth-century thinker who has spent more time writing about this topic than John Paul II. In fact, the first 129 Wednesday audiences of his pontificate were spent on a detailed catechesis on human sexuality, which has now become known as the "Theology of the Body."

I have been studying these audiences with a group of young adults in the Twin Cities for the past two-and-a-half years, and it has completely revolutionized my understanding of the human person. Many young adults across this country apparently experience the same kind of awakening upon reading these audiences, or upon hearing a synthesis of the teaching provided by a man named Christopher West. Theology of the Body study groups are rising up and growing rapidly across this country.

With this background, I find it difficult to understand the following assertion that you made:
"When it comes to issues of human sexuality, members of CPO and, unfortunately, much of the leadership of the Catholic church, base their 'right' understanding on a worldview no longer relevant in light of contemporary findings in the human sciences. Accordingly, just as church teaching has changed on issues such as cosmology, the procreative process, slavery, usury, democracy and capital punishment, so too must the church re-evaluate its understanding of human sexuality."

First of all, I would caution against the generalization that the views of Catholic Parents Online represent those of much of the leadership of the Catholic church. It is a bit difficult to substantiate such a broad generalization.

Secondly, I am not sure I know what you're referring to when you say that church teaching has changed on the issue of the "procreative process."

Thirdly, I am not certain I would use the word "change" to describe the development of the Church's teaching in any of the other areas you mention. Are you familiar with John Henry Newman's work on the development of doctrine, or Pope John XXIII's address on October 11, 1962, which opened the Second Vatican Council?

Here is a small portion of the address:
"The manner in which sacred doctrine is spread, this having been established, it becomes clear how much is expected from the Council in regard to doctrine. That is, the Twenty-first Ecumenical Council, which will draw upon the effective and important wealth of juridical, liturgical, apostolic, and administrative experiences, wishes to transmit the doctrine, pure and integral, without any attenuation or distortion, which throughout twenty centuries, notwithstanding difficulties and contrasts, has become the common patrimony of men. It is a patrimony not well received by all, but always a rich treasure available to men of good will.

Our duty is not only to guard this precious treasure, as if we were concerned only with antiquity, but to dedicate ourselves with an earnest will and without fear to that work which our era demands of us, pursuing thus the path which the Church has followed for twenty centuries. The salient point of this Council is not, therefore, a discussion of one article or another of the fundamental doctrine of the Church which has repeatedly been taught by the Fathers and by ancient and modern theologians, and which is presumed to be well known and familiar to all.

For this a Council was not necessary. But from the renewed, serene, and tranquil adherence to all the teaching of the Church in its entirety and preciseness, as it still shines forth in the Acts of the Council of Trent and First Vatican Council, the Christian, Catholic, and apostolic spirit of the whole world expects a step forward toward a doctrinal penetration and a formation of consciousness in faithful and perfect conformity to the authentic doctrine, which, however, should be studied and expounded through the methods of research and through the literary forms of modern thought. The substance of the ancient doctrine of the deposit of faith is one thing, and the way in which it is presented is another. And it is the latter that
must be taken into great consideration with patience if necessary, everything being measured in the forms and proportions of a magisterium which is predominantly pastoral in character."

At any rate, I will be interested to know if you have already encountered the Theology of the Body, and if so, what you make of it. I've attached a couple of articles in Microsoft Word format, as well as the complete address by John XXIII.

I look forward to hearing from you, and I remember you in prayer.

Yours in Christ Jesus, Clayton Emmer



Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:11:46 -0600
Subject: Checking back in with you

Dear Michael,
I sent you this message a month ago. Did you receive it, and if so, did you have a chance to review any of the associated material? Just wanted to check in with you.

Sincerely, Clayton Emmer



Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:28:19 -0600
Subject: FW: Checking back in with you

Michael,

Now it has been nearly two months since I wrote to you and I have not received any acknowledgement of my correspondence. Please let me know if you received my message.

Regards, Clayton Emmer



Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:52:52 -0600
Subject: August 12 Pioneer Press article

Michael,

It has been over six months and I still have not heard from you. Are you no longer interested in a dialogue about your StarTribune editorial?
I hope to hear from you.

Regards, Clayton Emmer

Labels: dialogue, theology of the body